Emergent Tulsa Cohort

Thursday, December 22, 2005

Emergent Friends

As I was recently looking over several blogs, some of them local, all of whom are critical of Emergent as they understand it. I've been reflecting.

The obvious first observation is the gap between those who are very vocal critic and those who in some way shape or form consider themselves to be a part of emergent.

My first thought is to write some of them off as having been burned by the church and now disillusioned with the institution in some significant way. this is true of some. but not all. I suppose folks who think like this will come with the territory of anything, or anyone who says something new. People who didn't like the old, will lump you in with their disillusionment.

My second thought is that they are very conservative fundamentalist, sometimes evangelical, often republican, who love reason, rationality and scientific thouht (as long as it fits their worldview then they rebuke science.) Since I went to a Southern Baptist University, I often think of Southern Baptist first in this catagory, which is a bit unfair to my SB friends. Generally though, these folks are strongly reformed theologically. Though a high percentage of these folks are reformed in theology they are more often than not, pre-Barthian. Which is interesting too.

Both of these are true. but not always.

Third. Now this is a stretch. But I think there is a strong contengent of people who love Ideas more than they love People. (this can be true of anyone in this conversation either emergent of otherwise) I think this is important because of my next point.

Forth.
Emergent is primarily about relationship. Friendships. Most of the critiques of people who are in the emergent conversation are critiques by folks who are not in relationship or dialogue with folks in the actual conversation. I would contend that these folks would at least have a better framework for understanding what is going on with emergent if they had regular conversations with those folks.
blogs are not communities. blogs are not conversations.
blogs are not condusive for this kind of conversation because they are too slow.

So when a blog declares Tony Jones as the "stupid church person" of the year it's not within relationship. They sit down with Tony and realize they are one the same page on many issues. And to the Stupid Church Person blog, they did a good job finding common ground with Tony in their podcast.

Which leads to an intersting quote I hear recently. "Friendship precedes orthodoxy"
i like that.

what do you think?

8 Comments:

  • So what you are trying to say is that the Emergent church is all about relationships, as long as the people agree with the Emergent church. It seems like to be Emergent you have to be able to bash anybody that is coservative or republican or evengelical or anybody else you do not like. From what I understand Emergent are just as closed minded as the people they bash.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:04 PM  

  • hi randy,

    where are you from? are you local?

    I am actually a registered republican, and I consider myself evangelical... and now that I consider it I actually consider myself conservative.

    is there something on this site or any others where we have bashed people randy?

    By Blogger mark, at 7:49 PM  

  • Mark,

    I am not local to you, I am in Northern California. I am a moderate conservative and not a registered republican. The reason I brought up those labels is because you were talking about the people being critical of the Emergent Church and you brought up those groups.

    I guess maybe I did take out my frustration with the emergent church people on you, and for that I apologize. Here is the thing I love blogging and I like to read other peoples blogs. So I check our your main blog along with a lot of other peoples. Some of these blogs seem to be critical of all things non-emergent. The way I read on some sites it is almost a negative to be called Republican, Evangelical, or conservative. So when I saw you use those terms in this post I guess it just rubbed me the wrong way.
    Part of the problem for me is that I guess I do not understand the Emergent Church, and what they stand for. From what I can tell the Emergent church wants to not be labeled, but by doing this they have labeled themselves as their own denomination.
    Sorry this reply is long, and personally I do not think it makes much sense. Just wanted to reply.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:00 PM  

  • Thanks for coming back Randy.

    By Blogger mark, at 8:08 PM  

  • No problem, this is why I love the internet. With all of the porn on the net, we are finding places where we can actually talk about Christ.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:15 PM  

  • Mark,

    I'm sure you've seen it, but Scot McKnight has an interesting post on the difficulties in having a conversation between evangelicals and emergents (though as you describe yourself we see an example that the difference between the two isn't as clear cut as is often imagined).

    I also think what he says there (he has several other related posts that are good, too) lends a little credence to your #3. Though I doubt anyone would say that they value ideas over people there certainly seems to me to be a feeling among many evangelicals that there must be some common ground on which to stand before a meaningful converstaion can take place. Emergents, on the other hand, seem less motivated by common theology than by a shared praxis.

    That can obviously strain communication lines.

    By Blogger Paul, at 10:18 PM  

  • I only wish we could focus on relationships ..

    By Blogger Thoughts From Jeff, at 1:43 PM  

  • I'm a Mennonite and I've only recently gotten into emergent church conversations. I've been very impressed and, although I don't consider myself a card-carrying emergent, I do appreciate that this kind of conversation is going on. For me it feels very Anabaptist; which, for me, is another way of saying this is interesting Christianity as opposed to a lot of other stuff that goes on.
    I'm getting tired of a pro-war, consumerist Christianity... and I hope that emergent conversations continue to leaven north american Christian (and non-Christian) communities.
    peace

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:01 AM  

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