Emergent Tulsa Cohort

Thursday, November 10, 2005

Today at 10:30

See you at Nordaggio's at 81st and Lewis today at 10:30.
Those working at Metro might want to wait and come for their lunch break.
See you all then.

posted by mark at 6:17 AM

14 Comments:

  • Are you guys at all concerned about the fact that, by labelling this an "emergent" thing, that you're effectively cutting out large segments of a population of people that might enjoy being part of this dialogue? Not that you're intentionally excluding people, but baptists don't usually make an effort to attend methodist meetings. It's "their thing." People will likely see this in a similar light.

    I just wonder why it has to bear this label.

    By Blogger Stephen, at 8:03 AM  

  • Maybe it isn't an issue of changing the name, but instead defining it. After all, a methodist meeting is a methodist meeting no matter what you call it.

    By Blogger Tank, at 8:46 AM  

  • help me understand stephen.

    i'm interested to know how you might think we are cutting anyone out?

    would you consider yourself a part of this conversation? or would you like to be. if so, why the "you guys" comment? it sounds a bit critical (maybe that's not the right word) in your comment...

    By Blogger mark, at 1:11 PM  

  • Label something, and instantaneously you draw lines.

    Define something, and you've done more than say what you are... you've said what you're not.

    Isn't this something that a lot of you have railed about for years now... being labelled? Being defined? Being boxed in? I'm just wondering why you want to do it to yourselves.

    I say "you" and "you guys" because I'm still wondering whether I'm a part of this conversation or not. I know that I am not willing to allow myself to be called "emergent."

    Aren't you worried that, by choosing to say that this is a gathering for "emergents," that those who do not consider themselves as such will be less inclined to attend.

    This doesn't necessarily apply to me, personally, since I know a lot of you and am not as subject to the same influences as those who don't.

    By Blogger Stephen, at 3:06 PM  

  • i don't get it stephen.

    you are welcome to join us for a conversation.
    you know some of us.

    you know you are embraced as someone who can be a part of the conversation...

    what about the word "emergent" is getting under your skin.

    it sounds like you have a whole lot of assumption (and maybe judgements) on groups who associate under that word...

    it seems funny to me.

    first i don't think any of us would call ourselves emergent.
    some might call us that. but we wouldn't label that for ourselves.

    however there is a significant network of people who can identify with that term and who would come to find out more about the kind of conversation we are having.

    i'd relax. and try to make an evening gathering to hang out with your friends.

    frankly we aren't worried about gathering large groups of people.
    or getting people to come.

    this is an outlet for people who feel disconnected from others. most of us are church leaders (or former church leaders)
    the people who would likely come are thinking people who need a space to think outside the bounds their particular tradition may be comfortable with.

    So. Stephen. I love you. I'd love for you to come to a gathering. I'd love for you to participate in the conversation.

    but the "you guys" language grows very tiring and if you are going to keep it up, post it somewhere else.

    By Blogger mark, at 6:31 PM  

  • gee whiz

    ok...it's time for some drinks.

    first, I enjoyed the conversation the other day. just like out gatherings at Third Place last year, and starbucks before that, it's always good to hang out and talk about what God is doing in us.

    I do share some of the misgivings Stephen has about Emergent. I'm not sure why we need to label it. Emergent has no bearing on my life, call, or anything else. Seriously, it's just another trendy little title...kind of like PoMo was last year. At it's best its some people trying to be a part of some kind of movement for change...at it's worst is a way to sell books and be known. I'm not sure it's not both.

    I think it's kind of like McClaren's description of Fundamentalism. At first it starts out as something meant to unite, but ends up being something that excludes. Mark, you don't realize it, but the way you're talking to Zed is in a "in"/"out" kind of tone.

    I also find it interesting that Emergent grew out of a disgruntled set of conversations, yet it now seems to write-off people who are disgruntled with it because it just seems like a modified, candle-scented form of church inc.

    By Blogger Jimmy, at 6:49 PM  

  • As for our group...whatever it's called...I meant what I said the other day about meeting during the day will cause us to miss several voices that I think would be good to hear. I realize that we can't schedule around everyone, but I would like for us to at least attempt to schedule for the most. Not because the group needs to be large, but because those non-professional ministy voices are important. It offers a healthy perspective that these type of conversations don't always include. We're losing voices like Terry Hall, Joe Mooberry, Harlan and Karin, etc.

    As we talked about the other day, structure actually speaks for itself. Intentionally or unintentionally, if we structure ourselves to only include church-worker types we risk being just another ecclesiastical good ol' boys network and not being able to see what God is doing outside the boxes we've confined ourselves in. This is the kind of thing that may be seen as splitting hairs by some, but it seems like it was part of the foundations that started the "Emergent" in the first place.

    By Blogger Jimmy, at 7:03 PM  

  • If I'm coming across as exclusive I apologize.

    also.
    I don't speak for everyone.

    however, I'm tired of the generalizations about "emergent" and I'd truly like a space where there was less bitching.

    so come and play if you want.

    By Blogger mark, at 7:05 PM  

  • And lastly, in case all some might read in my comments are negatives, here's my positive thoughts:

    --I enjoyed and enjoy the conversations that bring people together as we recognize the things God is doing in our lives.

    --I think those conversations are best when they are broadened to include those who are not in the context of professional ministry.

    --I like that we can support each other in our current contexts, communities, and call. (LOL--I had to get 3 C's in there for old time's sake...but I seriously do like the idea of supporting each other)

    By Blogger Jimmy, at 7:09 PM  

  • i like those things to jimmy.

    By Blogger mark, at 7:10 PM  

  • That's what my questions are to you? "Bitching?"

    By Blogger Stephen, at 6:27 AM  

  • stephen,
    I sent you an email.


    riddle

    By Blogger mark, at 6:54 AM  

  • I have to say one thing, if someone doesn't go to a meeting because of what it is called, without knowing anything about the conversation, dialogue, support, or structure...it's time to loosen the ol' pride belt.
    I've been to a methodist church that I loved, I've also been to one that I would probably never go back. Same for Baptist. Same for Non-Denominational. You could go to an 'emergent' meeting here and one in Dallas, love one, hate the other. 'Christian' has all sorts of baggage, we all know that, both sides (and there are more than two) think that the other is giving the term a bad name, when it all comes down to it, it has to be taken on a person by person basis. You can still run into problems there, but I won't start on that now.
    I guess in a few words, it doesn't matter if we are called 'Emergent' or 'Jerry Falwell Gang', the people who are involved, in my opinion, are amazing and I feel that this can be an amazing 'support' group and so much more.
    Come, check it out, judge by the content of the people, you really can't name it to make everyone happy.
    I do kind of agree with Jimmy on the leaving people out who work during the day. Could we have it at night? The only problem is that right now in my schedule I only have two nights a week open, and it is a rough thing to give one up, even if it is only once a month.
    Just random thoughts, feel free to have at them.

    By Blogger Tank, at 11:00 AM  

  • I would like to clarify that my last comment was written on three or less hours of sleep and after a long drive.
    As I look back on the conversation, I missed some of what was said, and misunderstood, sort of.

    By Blogger Tank, at 7:16 PM  

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